Navigating the Evolving Music Industry: Wisdom from Eric McCain's Decades-Long Career

Jared Easley interviewed Eric McCain, an accomplished musician, percussionist, and studio musician on the Starve the Doubts podcast. 

Some key points from the discussion:

- Eric shared his background, growing up related to the Pointer Sisters, getting his start in music through marching band, and being mentored by influential music teacher Reggie Andrews. This exposed him to jazz and inspired him to learn percussion.

- He has traveled the world performing at iconic venues like Carnegie Hall and the Sydney Opera House. Eric has also worked with many famous artists, such as Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, and Denzel Washington, though often in the studio rather than directly.

- Eric performed percussion on the original Lion King animated film and the Broadway musical for many years. 

- He emphasized the importance of constantly reinventing yourself and being open to learning new things at any age. This motivated his interest in podcasting and attending this podcast conference.

- When asked for recommendations on experiencing the real LA music scene, Eric suggested checking out smaller clubs in the arts district downtown, referenced in the LA Weekly. 

- He discussed how much the music industry and recording technology have evolved over his career, from 4-track tapes to digital. While it is easier now, he feels the abundance of music has reduced some modern music's overall quality and artistry.

- Eric advised aspiring musicians to learn piano fundamentals and music theory as a foundation. Success takes hard work and homework, not overnight stardom.

- He is launching his podcast, Eric McCain Live, in late April 2024, interviewing musicians.

- Eric closed by encouraging listeners to prioritize their health above all else.

The interview painted Eric as a passionate, accomplished musician eager to share his experience and wisdom with others through his upcoming podcast. Let me know if you want me to elaborate on or clarify any summary part.

Transcript

 In this business, I'm in my 60s, you have to reinvent yourself constantly. You want to be exposed. It doesn't matter whether you want to go into broadcasting, engineering, whatever. Just you have to constantly reinvent yourself because there's always something new coming. And there's always new people getting off the bus here in LA that will,  if you will, I'll play you though.

But with that said, it's just, you just want to venture into different areas, things that you, it's always good to learn. You never stop learning. 

Welcome back to Star of the Douse. I'm your host, Jared Easley, and I'm joined with my new friend, Eric McCain. Eric McCain is an accomplished musician for years and years. They're doing all kinds of performances, including, uh, working with the Lion King. And, uh, I'm gonna let Eric just share some really amazing stories.

And, uh, he's got a podcast that's coming out. He's excited about, but he's super active in, uh, live music scene here in LA. And I, uh, first of all, Eric, thank you for taking time to talk with me. And I appreciate you being here. 

Jared, welcome to Los Angeles. I'm thrilled 

to be 

here, man. LA is, uh, it's good to see you on a, such a wonderful 

day.

It is a wonderful day. So Eric, you and I are friends. What inspired you to be a musician? You're an artist. What, What all of a sudden made you decide, Hey, I think I'm going to trap our guest. 

Because it, uh, Jared, I wanted to the public to be familiar with what people you do behind stage is actually from the musicians.

I'm a studio musician myself. I performed on many records, the live performances, but I feel that the, the audience aren't exactly aware of what studio musicians, you stage hands, attorneys. Entertainment lawyers, you know, agents  as well. So it's important that I get their stories out.  

It is. And, uh, not only do you have a lot of stories and hopefully we can share some of those here in a moment, but I also want to talk about your family background and some of the connections you have family that have had a lot of success in the league.

Yes. My family is, uh, the Poynter sisters, the Poynter sisters, Bonnie, Ruth,  So what 

was that like, uh, growing up and, and having the Pointer sisters, just, you know, right there hanging out with them, you know, that's your family. 

Oh, it was a great experience, but yeah, I actually met them  maybe 45, 50 years ago.

So I started playing with them probably in the late seventies and, uh, all the way through, um,  The  90s. At what point in your years did you realize, Hey, I want to pursue music? Good question. I started in marching band, and we did various parades and stuff like that. And so I saw larger bands. It was an inner city marching band.

So I saw the L. A. Police Band, Police Junior Marching Band. And then we came into a drum corps, so I got into drum corps. And by the way, that's where I learned all my rudiments. And that was very helpful. Um, The Velvet Knights, by the way. The Velvet Knights of Santa Ana. Go VKs!  Then, uh, in high school, I got Warrington band and didn't make it.

We had a very great teacher. His name was Reggie Andrews. Unfortunately, he's passed. He exposed me to jazz and I really started listening to, I actually wanted to be a drummer. I, by the way, I'm not a drummer. I am a percussionist. I do con Latin percussion. Classical percussions as far as marimba, vibraphone, xylophone chi. 

Yeah. But yeah, I was exposed to jazz and I heard Aerto Maria, and when I heard him, a Brazilian percussionist, and I said, Oh my God, I need to get into this because you have all the various sounds and instruments from all over the world. So I got into playing. And too, what's funny, we had so many drummers in the class.

That it was, the period was like, I think 45 minutes long and I was in a sixth chair and by the time it was time for me to play, it was, the period was over. So I never played. So I said, well, hey, let me get a set of congas and I'll get into playing conga drums and go from there.  So that was pretty 

cool.

Absolutely. So, so what point of going from that path to actually getting, you know, live gigs and then actually being recognized for your talent? 

Let's go back to Reggie Andrews because he was very, very instrumental in the careers of many people here at Fremont High School, Locke High School. Name a few musicians that come out of Reggie's camp was Petrush Russian, Leon Indigo Chancellor drummer with fame, Fritz Weiss.

Your guests wouldn't know these names. Leon Indigo Chancellor was the drummer with Santana for many years, Frank Sinatra, on and on. It's just a list of very competent musicians that came out of Fremont and Locke High School that gone on to have much success in this business. very much. He was very fortunate and he was almost like a father to me.

I mean, he took me around 'cause he was actually doing side gigs so that I was going to some of his gigs to take me around and he, he hired me for $5 to carry his equipment and stuff. So in essence, I was a roadie. So I bring the equipment in and stuff and at the same time I'm learning, you know, we're doing.

He's top gigs at the lighthouse. I'm keep in mind. I'm like 17, 16, 17 years old. Wasn't supposed to be in there, right?  So some of the great jazz clubs, unfortunately here in LA, all those clubs are gone, how we run these concerts by the sea, the lighthouse.  And two dollar bills.  We still have the baked potato from what I understand.

Um, we had a, a, a mild fire there, uh, last week,  but it's up and running, but I've played before in there since the late seventies as well.  So that was it. Once I got that bug, I hit it. That was in the  Los Angeles Junior Philharmonic Orchestra's timpani. Yep. Broadway plays, uh, consists of the Lion King.

Disney's The Lion King. I did percussion for that for 12, 15 years. Also did percussion for the first Lion King film.  

And you just evolved. So the animated film, we did percussion. Yeah, 

yeah, yeah. 

Absolutely, and it's iconic. Is there a 

new film that 

it's 

Well, they did a remake a few years ago. 

Yeah, but it was animated. 

Oh, was it? Yeah. I hope so. Well, some of it looked at a way that there's not real lions that are, yeah, James Earl Jones play. I move forward. So you did. CNN. You did the original animated film back in the nineties. Yeah. The first one. Yes. I didn't do the 

second one. No, I, I, I wasn't there, but the Broadway play, the traveling play.

Yeah. Which I mean, 

it's very, very well done. 

Yes. Thank you. In the beginning, the production has gone down to quite a bit now. I. I. I. I. The last time I saw it, but in the beginning for that first 10, 15 years, we were booming full cast, full music score, fantastic experience.  What? The eight shows a week got to the old man here. 

It adds up after a bit. Eight shows a day. Eight shows a week. Not eight shows. Eight shows a week. It's a lot. It's a bit. 

Was there ever like a venue or a place where you're like, man, if I could ever play here, that would feel like a, you know, like Radio City Music Hall. 

I don't know. No, it's a very good question, Jeff. Yeah. Yeah. Because you hear in all the stories, all the things when you watch TV, Oh, Carnegie Hall.  I've been at the Carnegie Hall.

Carnegie Hall, Carnegie Hall, every once in a day. My first gig with the Warner Sisters was at Carnegie Hall.  

No pressure. Yeah. 

Nineteen  eighty seven.  Five. Oh, wow. No, no, no. Nineteen. Eighty four. That's probably eighty three. Eighty four. Yeah. Perhaps it's my memory fails me sometimes. How cool. But yeah, Carnegie Hall, all of the venues you name, Radio City Music Hall, uh, the Palladium, London.

Yeah. The, uh, what's the name of the theater in Australia? Uh, great architecture. Opera House. Uh, you name it. Any. So, you've literally been around the world. Yes, we are. Absolutely. Sportsman's Lodge in Monaco. Sony plays a concert there. Fantastic. Spent weeks there in Monaco. Loved it. I've traveled all over Europe.

Most parts of Africa, Northern, South Africa, the West Coast. Loved it. I mean, if you want to eliminate ignorance, traveling is the best way to do it. I tell that to my students. I told her to my adult friends, but not traveling as American tourists, get a backpack, put some shoes on hiking shoes on, on, or whatever you need to do and get  absorbed that culture,  every town you go in religion, whatever it is, you don't necessarily have to be spiritual, but absorb that.

And you won't be biased. So bias when you, you, you see other people and against them or judging them, we'll come back. So 

what was it like to work with some of the iconic artists? And I know you've worked at the pointers, but you're also a little with Michael Jackson and you were, you worked with a lot of people that people will know 

I work with Michael Jackson, but I've never met Michael Jackson  and that's because of recording.

Now, when you're recording percussion, nine out of 10, it's just you and the producer and the engineer in there. We do a recording process call. Overdubbing. So, yeah. My daughter knows Michael. Yeah. Or knew Michael. Yeah. My youngest daughter. She used to go up to the Rebs. Yeah. No foul play.  

Hopefully not. Fair enough.

No. We don't know that for sure. But, uh, yeah. But you are connected with a lot of artists, though. 

Yeah, I love it. Stevie Wonder. Remember? Yeah, I know them as people. Denzel Washington.  Bobby De Niro, Robert De Niro. Yeah. Joe Pesci. Oh, Joe Pesci's actually a singer. 

Is he? 

Yeah, he goes under another name. 

Okay.

Yeah. 

Like Poe Jesse  or something. 

He sings quite a bit with Guitarist known as Pat Martino. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. I haven't seen. Have you had a chance to play with 

him or perform 

with him? No, no. I just know them from, um, Anybody that I need, Joe. Oh, he came from Lion King. Yeah. No kidding. Yeah, he brought his son off to Lion King.

So we were friends and then he gave me the stories about, Oh man, I just love to sing. I was like, you?  So I caught him in Chicago singing with Pat Martini because the Lion King was there at the Cadillac Theater on Randolph Street. Yeah. So, yeah, that was, 

that was quite interesting. Never know who you're going to meet.

Jared? I met you here. You and I are sitting down talking. That was a gift to 

me. We're at this wonderful, uh, event in downtown Los Angeles, the Marriott, right in LA Live. Right. Great 

facility here. Yeah, we're having a good time. And, uh, if you had a takeaway or two, what, what are some things that have stood out to you about this event so far? 

Education. I've only, I've come and spent a few hours here. I plan on spending more until the end of the, the event. But just the hours that I spent today, I've learned quite a bit. I have great speakers here. I recommend this event to anyone that's starting up. You don't have to come into podcasting,  but it's just, Oh, here we go again.

What the Eric McCain Live, the broadcast is about. People behind the scenes. This is a behind the scenes event. So you can become a star if you want. Well, 

you can definitely be equipped on 

what steps you can take to go in that direction. For broadcasting, as a broadcast. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And this interview, it's quite interesting. 

As I go, I'm loosening up because I'm watching all the people walk by. Some interesting folks here. 

I think it's, it's also exciting to see someone who's got your experience and Life opportunities that have come. And now you're like, Hey, I'm going to learn something new. I'm going to try something different.

You know, let's speak to that for a moment. 

You don't hear very good again, Jerry. In this business, I'm in my sixties. You have to reinvent yourself constantly. You want to be exposed. It doesn't matter whether you want to go into broadcasting, engineering, whatever, just, you have to constantly reinvent yourself because there's always something new coming.

And there's always new people getting off the bus here in LA that will,  if you will, I'll play you the ring.  But with that said, it's just, you just want to venture into different areas, things that you, it's always good to learn. You never stop learning. 

Would you be willing to share a story or two from your music background of, uh, things that might, uh, be future episodes on the show?

Like, Hey, I met this guy and we have this experience. Well, what's something you can share? You're very 

good.  Hey, I'm learning from this guy. He's a very good question. What I would like to do, what I'm going to do. It's all the bands that I've performed with, the artists, the bands that backed up the artists.

I'm to bring them on my show and we will talk about the tour that we did and we have fantastic stories about that. I'll bring on the guys that I work with, with Tina Marie and Rick James here. I didn't work with Rick, but Rick was the headliner when Tina Marie was opening for Rick. Before that, I was on the tour with Prince, Tina Marie, and Rick James, and Prince was our opening act.

This was way before he became Prince. That's awesome. So, that's a story that I would bring the band members on, because most of them are still around. The Bobby Womack band, uh, the stuff that we were out with since Bobby wrote a few tunes for, um, the Rolling Stones, we were on that first tour. Rolling Stones tour with, as the opening act, Bobby Womack.

Yeah, that was back in the late 70s, early 80s. It was that comeback tour that they did.  That would be one. Bring back some of the members in Patrice Rushen's band.  The majority of them have gone on to be great session players. Every record you listen to, they're perfect. It's got to be one of them on it 

Before we hit record you talked about you know, some of the artists that are the major artists today People don't really fully appreciate and understand, you know, how they get to where they are. Yeah, there's a whole team. 

Yeah. There's a whole team, and especially if you're dealing with a large production, say like Taylor Swift, that she has maybe a hundred people or probably perhaps more that are out there on the payroll.

Wardrobe, makeup, bus drivers, truck drivers, pilots, they're flying from different places private jets, obviously the musicians, dancers, there's a whole thing that, uh, just a number of Elements to go into make a Taylor Swift for the Beyonce's. So yeah, you want to have those people appreciate it. And then you want them to be recognized  because sometimes I think, um, some artists can be pretty cruel and rude to the people they work for.

Who's an artist who wasn't that way and stood out to you? There's that, you know what, this person understands. Oh, there's 

many before we answer that question. Most of the people that are very appreciative of you are artists that were musicians first, and then they became a celebrity, uh, the star. Yeah. So you're looking at Michael McDonald, Kenny Loggins. 

Lion Richie. Yeah. Stevie Wonder,  A host? Jesus. Oh man. I, I just as a wholesale, there's so many, if I wish I had the names on it, it's quite 

all right. It's just tons of them. I'm, I'm thrilled to hear they were out. So many that it, that understand 

and appreciate their, their team and because yeah, back in the day, the business was, uh, like a factory.

And say, for example, Motown, those, those acts, Diana Ross, The Temptations, Smokey Robinson, The Miracles, all those acts were groomed. They didn't have the rapport that they had with the musicians. They were just groomed to go out on the stage and perform, and they, the musicians were sometimes forgotten about, or they were just there, so they don't interact with them.

There's artists that I've worked with that refuse to talk to the musicians, and can't name them.  But, um,  you have to refer to them as Mr. Mrs. It was never that camaraderie among like you get with a little Richie or Jeffrey Osborne or Phil Collins. Yeah. You know, uh, Elton John. Wow. Those kinds of guys, you know, it's pretty like cool, man.

Yeah. Hang out with the guys. Go out after a gig or something and have a beer with them or meet you down at the lobby and have a beer. 

Yeah. So Eric, if somebody's visiting LA and they're like, you know, I really want to go hear some good music and you know, I don't want to go to the common places that everybody knows.

I want to go to something where I can kind of catch the, you know, the soul of LA or just something really unique. Well, what was it? They're, they're 

Tons of, uh, uh, venues here to play, depending on what you like. You've got the garage bands. You've got the, uh, eclectic kind of music, which is here downtown LA  on what we call the  arts district, which would be Los Angeles street.

Broadway east of the main, uh, area of downtown, the  financial area is what we call it, where all the banks are. And by the way, any time you go to a city, you see banks, that's the financial area, you want to stay away from that. It's always in that  area, you know? Yeah.  Here at LA Live where we are now, there's a few clubs here.

There's the condo room inside.  This is where our wonderful Lakers play. Baked potato, Catalina's Bar and Grill in Hollywood. But there's tons of small little back out clubs. I mean, you would never know that there's no sign or anything advertising. But we have a newspaper here called LA Weekly, and you could go through that and you can find every club that you want. 

And so  you've seen the music industry change over the years. What's your take on it? Quite a bit. Yeah. I mean, you've seen some really, I mean, it's, it's so night and day different from back when you started. Speak to them for a little bit. Well, when I 

started, Oh man, the change has been horrendous. 

Yeah. 

I mean, we started with a four track tape.

Well, actually a two track tape, but when I came in, It was four track. I used to see my parents with a two track. I didn't know what the heck that was. But when I started recording, there was a four track. And there weren't enough tracks to play, so we would just record everything on one mic or two mics  in the room and left, um, the one mic open for the vocals that could overdo the tracks on top of that.

And after that, I'm sorry, it went to a two inch tape. Which you had 24 tracks and then they would, they would like the 3M recording machine and the Studer and Sometimes people like Quincy Jones or some of the big producers They would combine those two tape recorders together to make a 48 track thing.

That was radical for that Yeah, big time and then you it wasn't like now you you youngsters out there You can just push a button and delete something You would have to splice the tape with a razor blade, find that little thing, rewind it, rewind it, rewind it, find that little point that you didn't like, splice it, and then reconnect the  tape again.

So, that's tape. We haven't gotten to digital.  Now, we're in the digital.  Which makes the access very easy for, uh, I don't like the term, uh, the basic person to, to pick up something, a recorder or computer laptop, or even the iPhone. And they have something on an app on there called garage bed, and you could do a full record on your iPhone.

And people have done that. Yeah. And with that.  You have, I don't  zillions of tracks that you could use now with the right equipment in a major studio.  I'm bouncing around with this, but I think you guys get the idea of the audience does. So it's quite incredible. Now, the sad part of it was that you get a lot of bull crap out there.

I don't think that. The music that's recorded with some artists, not all the room. Some of it's very good. I don't think they have a background in music and it's not the same where you actually put your heart into it. So when a musician, well, I can't say that they are putting their hearts into it, but it's just not up to the quality that it should be. 

I feel that anyone that's coming in to the music business. should have some type of basic knowledge of what music is. And by the way, if you're going to do something, there's two instruments that you need to have a total understanding of.  The main instrument is the piano. The piano is everything. If you don't understand  A to G or A to C or whatever, you need to understand that because every instrument was based on the piano.

Piano is actually a percussion instrument. A lot of people don't know that or are aware of that, but it's hammers on the inside.  Because when you, you lift up the lid, there's hammers on the inside that are hitting the strings in front of the keys. Right. So that's a battery. You're hitting something, you know, so piano lives, but it's very important to understand it You don't have to be a great pianist.

So we'll go that but just understand some basic form of music Yeah, it's very helpful  

for someone who's listening this and hey, I have this dream You know, maybe personal music. What would you even say to someone at this stage, you know, thinking about that? Shoot, 

that's funny. I have these conversations with my students and my girlfriend's son. 

The thing with this new generation of music with digital and now we have AI,  nobody wants to do the homework. You see these videos and things on TV and you think you're gonna just become a star. It doesn't work like that. Those people that you see there, they have put in time,  put in time on their instrument.

So I would say to anyone, learn the basics, go back to the piano, learn the basics, learn a little theory. And it'll come, you'll find it, that'd be helpful if you think you want to get to one to ten overnight. That's not gonna happen.  Do your homework. Well said. 

Eventually you're gonna have Eric McCain live. When do you think that might be available? 

We're looking at a launch date of, uh, late April. Okay. Of this year, 2024. That's exciting. Yeah. And I actually have about 15 shows in the can known, but we're looking for the format right now. I'm at KPFK 90. 7 FM here in Los Angeles.

Then the podcast. Now here we, Jared, we get into another thing with podcasts. Sure. We have lectures here,  here at the, the conference, the podcast conference. Uh, and you have Spotify here. I see. I sat in on one of their.  Doing a music show on a podcast is quite difficult unless you're really ready to financially secure because of the licensing.

How is it possible? I mean, Spotify, Apple, All those, those formats that play music, they're charging the license and fees for podcasts is just ridiculous on the music. You can't, it's almost impossible for you to do it and have a really nice show, if you will. We have to work something out with them. And that's just not our, for that format for a podcast, just as a professional musician myself.

I mean, I'm, I have royalties and residuals coming in from records and films that I've done over the years. I mean, every artist,  we're complaining about it now. We get less than an eighth of a quarter of a cent off of a penny. Look at Snoop Dogg. Look at Pharrell.  They're complaining. They're too happy. No. I mean, he, he got peanuts off of that.

Spotify, Apple. Yes, I'm talking to you, Spotify. You gotta work with us. You're taking all the money. You're not helping us.  It's ridiculous what they're doing. I hope we can see that evolve 

and change and I 

don't see it coming in the near future. 

Or something else can take its place 

that can  Well, hopefully these shows at Eric McCain Live and things like that, we're making the artists more aware, especially the up and coming artists.

We're making them aware of this. That's good. 

Well, Eric, I appreciate you being a little in the chat. If someone wants to Connect with you online. Is that something you welcome? I don't have 

it yet,  but I think it'll be up soon. I'll have a full media blown  thing off to all the bases. Uh, what the search engines 

do you use?

Uh, Instagram. Yeah, I have all that. What's 

your, it'll be up. I don't have it now. I'm like, Oh, 

that's okay. My publicist, we'll share it. Yeah. But, uh, that said, uh, We always like to close with final thoughts. What's the final thought you have, uh, to share? The final thought is stay healthy.  Stay healthy. 

Well said. 

Really, I, I, it's very important. Your health is the most important thing that you could have. Mm. I'm, and for example, I'm watching friends around me.  They're dropping like fries and we take that for granted. Yeah. You want to be here.  Take care of yourself. 

Well said. Eric, I'm, uh, thrilled to meet you.  It's an honor to chat with you and I wish you the absolute best.

Thank you so much. Thank you. And I wish you man, Jared, my man.  

It's been a pleasure.